Ruling on swastikas in flags

[[violet]]

I was asked (a while back now) to make a judgement on whether swastikas are acceptable to use in nation flags.

After consideration, I've decided: No.

Players who use swastikas in their nation flags should change them.

While this site generally allows for political debate and discussion, nations are held to a higher standard than forum posts, because there is no right of reply. An offensive post can be debated -- hopefully to the point where the poster learns something -- but an offensive flag, motto, or nation name just sits there.

The swastika is intricately associated with the Holocaust in public consciousness, and, as one of the greatest tragedies of the last century, it can reasonably be considered offensive for players to appear to endorse or celebrate it.

I understand that at least a few players who use swastikas in their flags do not intend this outcome, and can probably give me a long history lesson on the symbol; nevertheless, that is not the message the image sends.

[Garrison II]

Can you check my flag?? Its a nazi flag, but its the military flag, and theres no swaztika, only an eagle and a black war cross.

My flag was Voted on by the Kizer...they say it's for the Millitary and to remind us that we used to be Germans and what happened in WW2

the nazi flag is clock-wise, can we have them in an anti clockwise direction?

[Kandarin]

the nazi flag is clock-wise, can we have them in an anti clockwise direction?

That would send the same evil, racist message.

[Rapid Dr3am]

The Swastika, is an ancient religious symbol.

Do you plan to outlaw a crucifix from your game too?

If I want to use a Star if David is that okay?

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Suntory]

The swastika was used, and is still used in some circles, by Buddhists, Jains, and others as a holy symbol. Hitler just ripped it off from them and perverted it.

I guess we could assume that only Nazi swastikas have been condemned. But won't this just drive them underground, as such bans have done elsehwere? They now have a whole arcane system of symbols connected with their hateful ways, and used as substitutes where the swastika is unallowed; shall those be banned as well?

the nazi flag is clock-wise, can we have them in an anti clockwise direction?

That would send the same evil, racist message.

No -- the reverse is hindu/jain/buddhist and a number of other cultures... I would think if used in a country made in that context (If one were to say, create The Holy empire of Ahimsa) this should be allowed.

Of course, that's up to Violet and the mods to judge. Unfortunatly the lasting effects of the nazi era had it so that any swastika in western eyes has been tarnished (as have other things). SO many issues...

Greuesse!
~ Tricia~
German Studies Kid with comparative religion knowledge...

I respect the ruling that Violet posted.
While the black swastika in a white circle on the red flag is the national political flag of WW2 Germany, the swastika was used in other ways as well. The Allied powers removed swastikas anywhere they saw them, most notably the large bronze eagle and swastika over the Brandenburg Gate in berlin. :oops:
:?: The air force and armored divisions of Germany did use a different symbol, the black cross with white stripes. While it is not a swastika, many people remember seeing their villages flattened by vehicles bearing this mark. I would use it but it is no improvement as far as hate goes.
The german military units did have their own symbols, just as the US army of WW2 had unit patches. As long as it doesnt come from the VA, SA, or death's head (totenkopf) wing of the SS I would use it for my own country.. pending approval from Nation States. However that does not fit the personality of Vanadu as I've made it.

:idea:
To complete our knowledge of the fascist trilogy, remember that the Italian armed forces used a triple bundle of wheat stalks called a fasces , which is where we got the word fascism. The red and white spoked rising sun flag was Japan's imperial symbol and should be regarded as equally hateful, especially to those who suffered in the Philippines or China.
I have less universal agreement on this point, but I would also ban communist symbols, especially from the USSR prior to 1990. Communism is still an active ideology in the world and not everyone hates it as they do fascism (which itself has a few ignorant supporters). However the communists of the 20th century are responsible for as many millions dead through execution and genocide as the WW2 fascists.

[Lemmingcus Meenicus]

Sorry - when the admin speaks - the discussion ends.

(or so it should be)

Get them swastika's out of the flags.

------------------------------------
Humor troll salutes
-----------------------------------
am Garfield of Borg - Hairballs are irrelevant.

I am Ginsu of Borg. You will be assimilated - but WAIT! There's MORE!

I am Homer of Borg. Prepare to be... ooooohh, doughnuts!

I am Hugh of Borg. We want to assimilate Troi. Geordi is our friend. He can watch.

I am Jordan of Borg. Gravity is irrelevant.

I am Madonna of Borg. Gender is irrelevant.

I am Madonna of Borg: Justify my assimilation!

[Kandarin]

Suppose [violet] allowed reverse swastikas.

There are maybe a couple of dozen Hindus, Buddhists, and Jains here who want to put reverse swastikas on their flags as a symbol of their beliefs.

There are several hundred radical racists here who would use the loopholes to push their hate-filled beliefs.

Who would really benefit here?

[Lemmingcus Meenicus]

No.

Folks would still use the reversed swastika's to send Nazi messages.

Tiz better to cut them off completely.

The whole "omelet-egg" theory.

They will be abused no matter what way they spin - so - they get taken away.

End of story.

--------------------------------
Humor Troll Laughs and pokes Nazi sympathizers in their eyes
--------------------------------------------------------------
We are Tribbles of Borg. Prepare to be replicated.

Yoda of Borg am I. Futile is resistance. Assimilate you, I will.

P-Porky P-Pig of Borg: You will be assim-assim... absorbed.

Pythagoras of Borg - Distance is irrelevant.

Quayle of Borg - Inhaling is irrelevant.

Uhura of Borg: Assimilation frequencies open, sir.

[Rapid Dr3am]

The swastika is an ancient symbol. Dating back 3,000 years, the swastika predates the ancient Egyptian symbol, the Ankh . Approximately 3,000 years ago (1000 BCE), the swastika was commonly used; swastikas have been found on many artifacts such as pottery and coins dating from ancient Troy.

During the following thousand years, the image of the swastika could be found in many cultures around the world, including in China, Japan, India, and southern Europe.

By the Middle Ages, the swastika was a well known, if not commonly used, symbol but was called by many different names:

China - wan
England - fylfot
Germany - Hakenkreuz
Greece - tetraskelion and gammadion
India - swastika
Though it is not known for exactly how long, Native Americans also had long used the symbol of the swastika.

[Kandarin]

The swastika is an ancient symbol. Dating back 3,000 years, the swastika predates the ancient Egyptian symbol, the Ankh . Approximately 3,000 years ago (1000 BCE), the swastika was commonly used; swastikas have been found on many artifacts such as pottery and coins dating from ancient Troy.

During the following thousand years, the image of the swastika could be found in many cultures around the world, including in China, Japan, India, and southern Europe.

By the Middle Ages, the swastika was a well known, if not commonly used, symbol but was called by many different names:

China - wan
England - fylfot
Germany - Hakenkreuz
Greece - tetraskelion and gammadion
India - swastika
Though it is not known for exactly how long, Native Americans also had long used the symbol of the swastika.

That doesn't excuse the hyper-racists who are practically the only people who use it now.