General Forum Debating

[Euroslavia]

General Forum Debating

Here are a few things you need to keep in mind before entering a debate in the General Forum:

1. Personal attacks, name-calling, country bashing (especially crude generalizations such as "All Americans are warmongers" or "All Germans are Nazis") etc. will not be tolerated. If you can't post without being offensive, don't post at all.
2. You need a tough hide to participate in some of the debates in this forum, but at the end of the day, you will not be any worse for wear. Guaranteed. Just read over some of the things in this thread, and go at it!
3. If you disagree with someone, do so with some respect for the fact that you are speaking to another member who has as much right to their opinion as you do. If you feel that (in your opinion) someone is dead wrong, beat them with arguments, not swear words or name-calling. "Dead wrong" opinions are quickly recognized as such by other people, if you can point out their shortcomings in a civil manner.
4. However, you should keep in mind that the person you are debating with might be as convinced of their right as you are, and that no common sense arguments will make them think otherwise. In such a case it is better to drop the debate with a good closing argument, as you will obviously not achieve anything more there, short of frustration on your end.
5. If you want to discuss something that strays from the original topic with someone, use private messaging or e-mail and do not try to derail the topic to suit your present needs. (Alternatively you can create a new topic if the matter warrants it.)
6. If you ever notice a violation of anything written here that has not been sanctioned by a moderator or administrator in 24 hours after its appearance, please inform the moderators in the moderation forum, and provide the exact url of the thread and point out the exact post and quote in it that bothers you. You can also direct any other queries regarding this forum to any of the moderators.

Stephen’s Guide to Fallacies

If you'd like to read more about this Guide, here's the link: http://datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm

Fallacies of Distraction
• False Dilemma: two choices are given when in fact there are three options
• From Ignorance: because something is not known to be true, it is assumed to be false
• Slippery Slope: a series of increasingly unacceptable consequences is drawn
• Complex Question: two unrelated points are conjoined as a single proposition

Appeals to Motives in Place of Support
• Appeal to Force: the reader is persuaded to agree by force
• Appeal to Pity: the reader is persuaded to agree by sympathy
• Consequences: the reader is warned of unacceptable consequences
• Prejudicial Language: value or moral goodness is attached to believing the author
• Popularity: a proposition is argued to be true because it is widely held to be true

Changing the Subject
• Attacking the Person:
o (1) the person's character is attacked
o (2) the person's circumstances are noted
o (3) the person does not practise what is preached
• Appeal to Authority:
o (1) the authority is not an expert in the field
o (2) experts in the field disagree
o (3) the authority was joking, drunk, or in some other way not being serious
• Anonymous Authority: the authority in question is not named
• Style Over Substance: the manner in which an argument (or arguer) is presented is felt to affect the truth of the conclusion
Inductive Fallacies
• Hasty Generalization: the sample is too small to support an inductive generalization about a population
• Unrepresentative Sample: the sample is unrepresentative of the sample as a whole
• False Analogy: the two objects or events being compared are relevantly dissimilar
• Slothful Induction: the conclusion of a strong inductive argument is denied despite the evidence to the contrary
• Fallacy of Exclusion: evidence which would change the outcome of an inductive argument is excluded from consideration
Fallacies Involving Statistical Syllogisms
• Accident: a generalization is applied when circumstances suggest that there should be an exception
• Converse Accident: an exception is applied in circumstances where a generalization should apply

Casual Fallacies
• Post Hoc: because one thing follows another, it is held to cause the other
• Joint effect: one thing is held to cause another when in fact they are both the joint effects of an underlying cause
• Insignificant: one thing is held to cause another, and it does, but it is insignificant compared to other causes of the effect
• Wrong Direction: the direction between cause and effect is reversed
• Complex Cause: the cause identified is only a part of the entire cause of the effect

Missing the Point
• Begging the Question: the truth of the conclusion is assumed by the premises
• Irrelevant Conclusion: an argument in defense of one conclusion instead proves a different conclusion
• Straw Man: the author attacks an argument different from (and weaker than) the opposition's best argument
Fallacies of Ambiguity
• Equivocation: the same term is used with two different meanings
• Amphiboly: the structure of a sentence allows two different interpretations
• Accent: the emphasis on a word or phrase suggests a meaning contrary to what the sentence actually says

Category Errors
• Composition: because the attributes of the parts of a whole have a certain property, it is argued that the whole has that property
• Division: because the whole has a certain property, it is argued that the parts have that property
Non Sequitur
• Affirming the Consequent: any argument of the form: If A then B, B, therefore A
• Denying the Antecedent: any argument of the form: If A then B, Not A, thus Not B
• Inconsistency: asserting that contrary or contradictory statements are both true

Syllogistic Errors
• Fallacy of Four Terms: a syllogism has four terms
• Undistributed Middle: two separate categories are said to be connected because they share a common property
• Illicit Major: the predicate of the conclusion talks about all of something, but the premises only mention some cases of the term in the predicate
• Illicit Minor: the subject of the conclusion talks about all of something, but the premises only mention some cases of the term in the subject
• Fallacy of Exclusive Premises: a syllogism has two negative premises
• Fallacy of Drawing an Affirmative Conclusion From a Negative Premise: as the name implies
• Existential Fallacy: a particular conclusion is drawn from universal premises
Fallacies of Explanation
• Subverted Support (The phenomenon being explained doesn't exist)
• Non-support (Evidence for the phenomenon being explained is biased)
• Untestability (The theory which explains cannot be tested)
• Limited Scope (The theory which explains can only explain one thing)
• Limited Depth (The theory which explains does not appeal to underlying causes)
Fallacies of Definition
• Too Broad (The definition includes items which should not be included)
• Too Narrow (The definition does not include all the items which shouls be included)
• Failure to Elucidate (The definition is more difficult to understand than the word or concept being defined)
• Circular Definition (The definition includes the term being defined as a part of the definition)
• Conflicting Conditions (The definition is self-contradictory)

Ways to start off a good debate

When starting a debate in the General Forum, let’s say, the benefits of Democracy, state your opinion on exactly why you think so, add some concrete information that can prove your opinion, and provide examples of nations where democracy has thrived.

Now, next is the counter debate. Anyone who believes that democracy is an inefficient form of government should state their opinion, and be sure NOT to include personal insults. This will ruin your chances at being taken seriously. Include concrete evidence of exactly why another type of government is more efficient than democracy (ex: communism, monarchy, fundamentalism, etc).

Examples of what not to do when starting a debate thread

Example #1:

I can't undrstand why people hate the America. We do so much good for the owrld. We stopped hitler we stopped communism, we spread democrasy and freedom. We have the freeest and strongest country in the world and we use it to help people. Plus we are a christian nation and we spread the word of the lord. Why do you hate us?

Firstly, having poor spelling in your opening post is a big no-no. Bad spelling, grammar, and punctuation doesn’t help you much at all. Writing your posts in Word is recommended, but you can also just skim over it, and make sure everything is fine.

Secondly, yes, this person provided examples of why America is good, however, he may have answered his own question. The fact that he says the US is a Christian nation is nice and all, but there are thousands of people who visit the General Forum who aren’t of the Christian religion, and there are people out there who dislike America because of its strong Christian roots

Example #2: Nazi’s Suck
This alone is a poor example in itself. Their title basically sums up the entire point of the thread, which certainly makes room for others to come into the thread and flame/flamebait/troll/spam it up.

Example #3: Come get me, pseudo-christians…
The title alone, again, is giving Christians a ‘good’ reason to attack his opinions.

General Forum Extras!

Now, debating isn’t everything! Feel free to post informative threads about current events all across the world! However, remember that when posting a link to another website, be sure to include your opinion on it.

Good Example #1:Was Condi Rice’s Testimony Truthful?
Here, he posts the article in the thread, and he includes his opinion of the topic, however, the fact that the topic was hijacked immediately after that doesn’t help…

Bad Example #1: Wow…that’s all I can say.

Adding in one word after posting a link isn’t very informative. Write out your opinion of the article. Posting threads with only a link in them, and adding nothing to the information just ‘leaked’ can be considered plagiarism.

There are also a lot of creative ideas within General Forum. Here are a few that stick out:

1. If you could go back in time and change one thing, what would it be?
Just as long as everyone keeps to the topic, this thread could get quite interesting, in seeing exactly what everyone wanted to change.

2. Corrupt A Wish IV
Same as before. It's always fun to come up with odd quirks to wishes, such as wishing for a million dollars, and the counter being that it was actually money stolen from a bank.

Conclusion!

One thing you need to keep in mind in the General Forum is that it can be really fun if you just remember the rules, and don't take things too personal. It's always interesting reading other peoples' opinions, if you keep an open mind. You may make a few new friends here too!

wow, wtf, you wanna be stickied, eh?

I hope that this gets stickied. It is incredably useful. Remeber, this is Nanakaland saying that.

[Alien Born]

One minor objection to the content.

The fallacy of inconsistency:

• Inconsistency: asserting that contrary or contradictory statements are both true

is something that nearly all human beings suffer from in their belief structures. It is a logical fallacy, but it is also part of being human, so don't be too hard on it.

Wow.
If we can manage to actually wrangle people into reading this...
This deserves a sticky.

By the way, I *love* the first and third examples you picked for what not to do.

[Euroslavia]

.::BUMP::.

Come get me, pseudo-christians…

Good example.

[Kleptonis]

Is there a thread in moderation for this yet?

Originally Posted by Kleptonis

Is there a thread in moderation for this yet?

Lobbying for a sticky?
Not yet. Or at least not that I can see.

[Kleptonis]

Well, I guess I'll go ask for one then.

Originally Posted by Nanakaland

I hope that this gets stickied. It is incredably useful. Remeber, this is Nanakaland saying that.

1) there are already enoguh stickies, if not more
2) im sure its already been stickied

It should have something about not posting on the same topic again, and again, and again.

I know you don't like: the US, Europe, abortion, pro-life, etc. But after a while it becomes repetative.

Like the "why john kerry has not flip flopped threads".

[Dontgonearthere]

From what Ive noticed, most debates are more like 'agrees', everybody posts the same opinion, or a 'go you' post, and any dissenting voices are shouted down, or dismissed out of hand without addressing their points.
Meh.

[Euroslavia]

.::BUMP::.

Originally Posted by Alien Born

One minor objection to the content.

The fallacy of inconsistency:

is something that nearly all human beings suffer from in their belief structures. It is a logical fallacy, but it is also part of being human, so don't be too hard on it.

Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.